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defense cuts. in fact, both sides have gone out of their way to say they shouldn't happen. but if there's no deal, they may happen anyway. in today's "deep dive" how the sequester could impact our military, our economy, and our safety. the budget control act calls for about a trillion dollars in automatic cuts to begin in january if laes no deal. half would come from domestic spending. we'll dig deeper into that. today spes cifically about the half that comes from security and defense. the cuts on that side amount to $492 billion over the next ten years but they aren't across the board. the president has promised to exempt military personnel and veterans affairs. let me start this here. here is the $492. that, by the way, this $492 billion is on top of another $450 billion cuts the d.o.d. was planning to make to cut waste and trim unnecessary programs. it's prompted mrenting of hand wringing on both sides. >> we can't afford another $500 billion in cuts in our defense budget on top of the $500 billion in cuts that the president is already making. >> the sequester destroys the united sta
, the president of the national right to work defense foundation. welcome to you both. let me begin with you. twenty-four states now right to work. the governor, the outgoing governor of new hampshire not vetoing. that would have been 25. that is an impressive, if you will, said of progress to markair. isn't it? >> that's right. this is exciting. with indiana's passage of the 23rd right to work on february 1st in michigan passage, it has been a good year, and it's important to battle. your description of it was spot on. this is about ending compulsory dues payments to union officials. that's it. lou: and listening to the president yesterday, your thought there were trying to tear down collective bargaining to end the right to organize a union. i mean, the hyperbolic language was extraordinary. >> considering that the union movement, $400 million to help them get elected, what would you expect? it's the same thing we saw in wisconsin. actually -- and this has played out in the media. lou: you asked me a question. i'm going to answer it. what i would always expect is to be definitive, plain sp
light to spend valuable defense funds on things like efforts to make biofuels. the military is focused on alternative energy sources faced constant debate in congress this year and i think rightly some republican senator james inhofe is a member of the armed services committee. senator, welcome back to the show. when i go through these stats it is really staggering. you look at the air force which paid $59 a gallon for 11,000 gallons of alternative fuel. the navy spent $12 million on biofuels at a rate of $26 a gallon. at a time we're talking about raising taxes and the fiscal cliff and what financial problems we're in this country, i read these numbers i want to tear my heart out. how do you feel? >> melissa, it is worse than that. in '09 he had the navy pay $424 a gallon for 20,000 gallons. that is fuel on the market you could buy for $3 a gallon. $424 a gallon. in mind, this president has had a war on our defense system. he disarmed america. he has done away with our brigade combat teams, our ships, our f-22s, c-17s, future combat systems. he uses the excuse. no, i have not reduced
the neighbors think about it. >> in an interview with erin burnett, defense secretary leon panetta wasn't about to say this three-stage rocket launch was a success for jim jong-un. >> we still have to assess what happened here. most importantly, the final stage to determine really whether or not that did work effectively or whether it tumbled into space. >> but north korea did succeed in putting what u.s. officials describe as a rudimentary satellite into space. the u.s. is trying to determine if north korea is able to control the satellite. and while it's all the same technology that could one day result in a north korea missile being able to hit the u.s., experts say, don't panic yet. >> it has to demonstrate that it cannot just get something up to space but bring it back down. that requires a reentry vehicle. >> the u.s. believes iran may be one country that helps fix its technical problems. north korea calls it, quote, baseless. the u.s. maintains a small number of its own defensive missiles in both alaska and california that would be capable theoretically of shooting down the north korea m
appears increasingly on the defensive against rebel forces which according to israel's ambassador to the u.s. include a growing number of radical islamist. >> the jihadi presence is big and getting bigger. and the longer the conflict goes on there, the bigger it will get. >> the jihadies are an offshoot of al qaeda in iraq which ones fought a no holds bar battle against american troops. according to jeffrey white a former analyst for the defense intelligence agency, they are now turning the tide against the assad regime. >> they are very good fighters. they give the rebels a combat edge. they are quite willing to die, and they fight on all key fronts. they're involved in many of the key actions. these are not people we want to win. >> reporter: with the rebels making inroads on damascus itself, monitoring of syrian bases like this where chemical weapons are stored has detected evidence the assad regime may be preparing to use them in a last ditch attempt to save itself, an act the obama administration has warned could trigger military intervention. worst-case scenarios are threatening to b
the country has over that satellite. plus, erin burnett has an exclusive interview with defense secretary, leon panetta about this launch. she also talks with him about syria, what we're learning tonight about the forces loyal to president bashar al assad, and how scud missiles have been fired. >>> the united states government says it shows just how desperate assad's regime is now getting. >>> and also, our first look at the shooter who police believe is responsible for last night's deadly rampage in a portland-area mall. police have identified him as well as the two people that he killed. let's go "outfront." >>> good evening, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield in for erin burnett tonight who is on assignment in afghanistan. we've got breaking news right off the top. cnn just learning that the united states does not believe that north korea is in full control of that satellite that it sent into space with the long-range rocket launch. this is according to a u.s. official to our barbara starr at the pentagon. up until now, by most accounts, this launch has been seen as a success, or certainl
was there to bring memd help to people in afghanistan. and defense secretary pennetta about the rescue, saying the team put the safety of another american ahead of their own. muhammad legal la on the story in eastern afghanistan. >> reporter: it happened under the cover of darkness. a joint american andfghan special forces raid to rescue this man. dilip joseph, an american doctor working for a colorado-based charity, morningstar development. >> this is a team that has lots of training on hostage rescues. but until you actually do it, you never know whayou are going to find. >> reporter: here's how it all went down. on wednesday, joseph and two afghan colleagues were returning from a medical clinic in a remote province when they were kidnapped at a check point along a highway by armed militants. they were then driven to a mountainous region, close to the pakistan border. the afghan captives were eventually released but joseph wasn't. spending three terrifying days in captivity. when u.s. intelligence showed joseph's life was in imminent danger, the military made its move. >> a hostage rescue mi
on the defense authorization bill. in the process, mccain gave credence to filibuster reform. his comments step all over mitch mcconnell's claim. it's not an effort to marginalize the minority party. with 386 filibusters from republicans, these rule changes are simply a way to make the senate work again. that's what you pay them for. let's turn now to senator debbie stabenow of michigan. there's been a lot of conversation in the liberal community in this country about this. and democrats seem to be chomping at the bit. is this going to happen? are we going to see change? >> yes, i believe that we are going to see change. we have the support to make the changes and i think it's clear the public wants us to get something done. of course, we're going to work across a shouldn't be able to hold up the department of defense bill or in the case of my bringing jobs home act, which is so important for shipping jobs overseas, we had 57 votes but we couldn't get 60 to stop a filibuster and they didn't have to stand on the floor and talk so nobody knew who it was from block us to closing loopholes to bring
nothing, and here's the most important thing. he gets big cuts in defense which he would never get under a negotiated deal of any kind with republicans and democrats. he gets half a trillion dollars in defense cuts. yes, he gets a half a trillion dollars in cuts in domestic programs. they'll be much more than that in any negotiating deal, so this is actually a very good deal for the president to just say i'm putting forth good faith and if you don't do everything i want, then i've got a fall back i can live with. >> here's another thing that he says. maybe you ca can explain this. he's quoted as saying let tax rates on the upper income folks go up and then let's set up a process with a time certain at the end ofhere we will work on tax reform. we'll look at what loopholes, and he goes on. what american is ever going to believe a president or anyone else that later on the government is going to do this? i mean, does he think -- i mean, it's absurd. no american is going to trust that i'm here from the government and here to help you or don't worry, we're going to do this alert. >> it goes
it would leave the door open for abortion advocates. the home school legal defense association rallied parents claiming it was a threat to home schooling in the united states. again, just claims. no actual facts. here's democratic senator chris coons of delaware on the last home school claim. >> they have succeeded in scaring the parents who home schooled their children all over this country. my own office has gotten dozens of calls and letters demanding that i vote against this convention as a matter of international law and as a matter of u.s. law. this convention does nothing. does nothing to change the home schooling of children in america. >> he gave that speech on the senate floor just before the vote. senator mike lee of utah was 1 of the 38 republicans who voted against the u.n. treaty. he agreed to talk us to tonight. he's a constitutional lawyer, was a law clerk for justice alito. we spoke a short time ago. senator, you said this treaty will somehow change u.s. law or could change u.s. law. former republican attorney general dick thornburgh who helped negotiate this treaty on
syria is loading chemical weapons on to aircraft, but defense secretary panetta said it appears the embattled assad regime is preparing to do just that. >> there is no question that we remain very concerned, very thecerned that as the opposition advances, in particular on hemascus, that the regime might very well consider the use of chemical weapons. ing eporter: monitoring of syrian basis like this one has picked up evidence engineers have loaded the chemicals which combine to form the deadly nerve agent sarin, into bombs that could be dropped airplanes. satellites have seen trucks moving among want bunkers where the weapons and agents are believed to be stored. u.s. officials say the evidence is strong but circumstantial, not definitive. but that, combined with fighting in the suburbs of damascus, has led to fears of what the assad regime might do. if it feels cornered. we asked jeffrey white, a former analyst for the defense intelligence agency, what would happen if the rebels cut off damascus? >> it's the end of the regime. the regime can hang on for a while because it has t
medicare benefits? and why don't we cut the -- the defense budget? why do we need people in europe? why do we need them in japan? what are we doing in decree california? i want some answers to this. >> well, go to the web and look for the republican budget. that was written by the chairman of our budget committee paul ryan. you will see these savings -- >> 30-year, 40-year plan. i want to know what we can do -- >> well -- number one, defense has already been cut. we can debate how much it should be cut further but it has already been cut. i mean that's just a fact. >> but we added -- >> -- defense on the republican side. you have that global war turf. -- good idea. >> say again, please? >> global war -- >> here's what you have to do. ultimately you're going to take america off the road to fiscal insolvency. you're going to have to reform current entitlement programs for future generations, which is exactly what we do in our budget. medicare is going broke, social security is going broke. the four trust funds. you've got one trust fund going broke in about six years -- i'm happy to put that
some vowing to support the treaty voted no. one was the home school legal defense association. the hslda, the powerful lobby group around the country whose leader you're about to meet. they had some very strong things to say about the treaty, but the notion was basically this. if it were to pass, they said, the u.n. treaty would somehow let the u.n. mandate how parents of disabled kids in america cared for their children. americans -- among the senators echoing that center is mike lee of utah. keeping them honest, though, when i asked him to specify how this u.n. influence might manifest itself, here's the answer he gave. >> can you name any other u.n. treaty that has forced changes in u.s. law? >> i didn't come prepared to cite supreme court precedent on this point but it's a well -- >> what you're saying is hypothetical. you're using a bunch of hypotheticals saying this is going to force abortion rights for disabled people overseas. i mean, some groups are saying children with glasses are going be taken from their parents. you're using all these very scary hypotheticals. you
of a good deal from their standpoint, does it? >> well, i think one of the reasons that they're on defense is the fact that the president is willing to take this fight outside the beltway. inside the beltway, there's a whole fuzzy logic that starts to apply, where you lose track of what it means to be in the ?h@&% middle class and how serious the economic situation is. and i think as the president continues to make that case about basic economic fairness, one that nearly two-thirds of voters in this election felt that some form of raising revenues on the highest rates made sense in order to get our fiscal house in order and make investments, and the republicans are trying to dig in on the wrong side of that. so it is a tough debate. but ultimately, this shouldn't really be about who's in leadership and boehner versus kantor. this really should be about families out across the country. and you and i know, those families are still struggling and would like to see a little bit of common sense. >> well, they've made a lot of improvement. no question about that. our economy is a lot better. we
billion, more or less. >> more or less. >> it's homeland security, not just defense. >> yeah. that's always been one of the mischaracterizatio mischaracterizations. think of it as all national security. there's other parts that go into medicare providers also. >> can i possibly talk you into leaving the capital gains tax rate alone and the dividends tax rate? they're pro investment, pro capital formation. they help inves tors and retirees and help start new businesses. i know certain tax rates will goup whether i like it or not. can icon vince you to leave capital gains alone? >> it's all on the table. only two people know. that's president obama and speaker baner. i haven't spoken to them today. they're not talking publically. but they are negotiating. i believe getting closer. you have to realize as part of the budget agreement of 2011 we did agree on $1.1 trillion in cuts. that's already there. and i also believe that it's very important that we raise the debt ceiling when we do the fiscal -- >> you will never get it. let me ask you. will the democrats get an increase in and i u
that violent images were scribbled inside. the defense now says that they will espn her. >> shepard: alicia, what's to make of the recent hospital stay by the accused killer? what do we know? >> reporter: all we know is it was a medical emergency. his defense team citing a gag order said they cannot comment. our producer was inside the courtroom and said he did not look banged up from this. reportereportedly he's attempteo harm himself before. holmes' parents were in court today. this is the first time they sat in on the proceedings. however, they did not have anything to say to the media outside. >> shepard: i guess not. aly ialeaseia acuna. thanks. >>> a storm left behind some frigid temperatures. meteorologists report 16 inches of know fell in minneapolis yesterday and while skiers seemed to appreciate the weather, it made a mess of the roads. thplow drivers worked overtime d all over the place folks were pushing their cars to get them going on the street. emergency crews in minnesota reporting at least 600 crashes and more than 1100 spinouts. it was a similar situation in wisconsin and
defensive marriage act that denies some benefits to legally married same sex couples. do gays have the same constitutional rights as hetero sexuals to get married. cbs 5's juliette goodrich speaks to the couple at the head of this issue. >> she texted me omg granted. then she called me and we just started crying. we were on the phone for a few minutes. we couldn't talk. >> chris perry and sandy steer are cautiously optimistic they will get the legal recognition, benefits and protection of marriage. they say it's been a long time waiting. >> in real life it doesn't feel fast at all. we've been really patient and waited a long time to hear when the final leg of this race would be and now we know. >> just as hetero sexual marriages were taking place at city hall, city attorney dennis herrera and activist held a news conference nearby on a case that's now in the hands of the supreme court. >> so, we are gratified and look forward to making our argument before the united states supreme court about why proposition 8 needs to be struck down. >> but the protect marriage coalition is confident the s
to send 20 f-16 fighter jets to syria. >> is this the time to send secretary defense. >> if we are recognizing the opposition there, some reports say that it is full of al qaeda as and iraq and al kid is in syria. it is good that the at min tration is finally doing something. we have beeen sitting on their hands. >> the u.s. is sending 20 more f-16. he is at war with reformers and there are rights there. we no no idea what this consti tooth constitution. why are we doing this? >> i'm as confused. i kint of say how is that working for you? nothing to do with syria, yemen ebipt and this is a mess and so is our policy. >> you are right. but we want to be careful by not ailnating the military. >> do we know, ebipt was a secularist. now, the question here is, is it going to become a sharia. is the brotherhood going to get this power. >> that is the biggest concern. we'll see how that goes on sunday. it would be a shame if egypt was less throw. >> why don't we hold this aid back until talks can lay out and send the state department thing over. the secularists and reformers on the str
sectors having a big day. defense stocks, number one. who would have thought? what sequestration worries are there? this is a historic high. the philadelphia defense index, the main index everyone watches in defense stocks, historic high today. all the big name defense stocks are to the upside. raytheon, northrop, rockwell. all are up and outperforming the market this month. who would have thunk it? say what you will. these stocks are having big worries on sequestration. put up my two main points and i'll tell you what i think is going on here. even though the threat is looming here they're ignoring it. i think regardless. everything i read indicates there's budget uncertainty and slower bookings comes from all the defense names. frankly them trading at a slight premium to the market now strikes me as a bit odd. nonetheless, that's what's going on. let me also mention the airlines. because the airline index is hitting a 52-week high today. there is some general optimism. delta, there's actual deals. kell t delta is buying into southwest. 49% stake from singapore. good commerce from some
of defense and his comments. i had the army chief of staff in my office a week or so ago telling me that they're looking at cutting 80,000 people out of the active duty army beginning now and that's before the massive cuts come through, i think the president's had this plan to cut our military, to dismantle it. i think what we're going to see is harmful effects on the american people when we try to defend this country in the next decade. >> in in a word do we avert the train wreck or get a front row seat and watch it happen? >> well, governor, one. things we hear from our constituents, they say wii want you to get an agreement and work this out, but always give this caveat. we don't want you to throw our principles the under the train and that's what i think you'll see the republicans do. we've passed proposal that will stop the huge tax cuts and tax rates from going up. we' we've passed something and i think they will hlet it go over the cliff. we're not going to throw the fundamentals that made this country great out the window. >> i certainly hope so, congressman, always a pleasure to chat
, there is a concern, because a-123 systems, battery technology has been used by the defense defendant and others, it's so widespread critics say it's hard to buy into this company and not be privy to that technology. that makes us, of course, you know, exposes us to the possibility of cyber attack. the chinese can say that the government operations of this battery company will be taken over by another american company company, and they promise not to be a threat to national security. we can regulate companies like that, but can't infiltrate them. there's nothing we can be guaranteed with regard to the chinese having access to this technology. >> if people look closer at who runs this country, they would be surprised. there was an american company, they wanted to buy it. they were $5 million under. i cannot believe that the group that you're talking about would actually allow this to go through. here's the other thing. the at the presen president, se, governor, everybody was there for the groundbreaking of this company. now they have the nerve tot company spokesperson say this is an example of how pr
of those notes. pathetic defense. up next, the fiscal cliff. president obama is in campaign mode while republicans are considering -- well, considering. can the president pull off a historic victory? maybe, you're watching hardball. the place for politics. >> welcome back to "hardball." last night, john boehner met one-on-one to crunch a fiscal deal. tfts the first time the two men met alone like this since the summer of 2011. the president was in michigan speaking before autoworkers and selling his tax plan. >> if congress doesn't act soon, meaning the next few weeks, starting on january 1st, everyone is going to see their income taxes go um. it's true. you all don't like that. we can solve this problem. all congress needs to do is pass a law that could prevent a tax hike on the first $250,000 of everybody's income. everybody. [ applause ] that means 98% of americans and probably a hundred percent of ewe. >> some americans are slowly but steadily facing on the reality of fiscal americans. >> there is a growing group of folks that are looking at this and realizing that we don't have a
next. the president's defense secretary backs away from words about syria and chemical weapons. >> bret: the pentagon top man says syria appears to have slowed the preparation to use chemical weapons against opposition forces. some of those forces may not exactly be friendly to the u.s. national security correspondent jennifer griffin has the latest. >> hours after the state department declared a syrian faction terrorist organization, members of the syrian opposition announced the group known as al musria played integral role to help overtake key stronghold, large military base in aleppo. it's a front group for al-qaeda in iraq. demonstrating the complexity of the syrian war and u.s. reluctance to get involved in the inability to ignore. today, leon panetta backed off suggestions the syrians were making preparations to use chemical weapons. >> the intelligence leveled off. we haven't seen anything new indicating any aggressive ste steps to move forward in that way. >> pentagon never officially acknowledged the intelligence report that the components for the nerve gas had been mixed. the
. in its defense, torture only occupies about the first 30 minutes. i know for many people that's quite enough, and there is an enormous amount of detective work involved in actually finding the location of the courier. the other thing is that the movie -- it kind of fudges. i have to say they kind of fudge the actual revelation. they torture the guy, it doesn't work, and then they trick him into saying that he said something that he didn't say, and then he spills everything in a very calm and casual way. so -- >> but, david, didn't you have the sense that was a product of him having been broken? >> absolutely. certainly. >> i always tell people, i have been watching movies for years with stars i don't like, and i like them in the movie. so i think it's one more thing we have to use our discernment when we watch. thank you very much, frank and david. >> thank you. >>> up next, supreme court justice antonin scalia's latest insult to gay americans. is this what the republican party needs right now? this is "hardball," the place for politics. enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis
. he can turn and say to my want to restore some of this funding that my secretary of defense and joint chiefs of staff told me i need to restore and can position himself as sort of the protector of u.s. national security. so there are some clear incentives to the president to lead the country over the fiscal cliff. do i think that's what he wants? probably not, but do i think there are incentives for him to do it temecula. gerri: never looked at it that way. as you look at this debate on going, there are a lot of folks who say we will be flirting with recession or in recession if we do go over the cliff. do you agree? >> that happens only if we go off the cliff and stay off for an extended amount of time. to we don't go into recession just because we don't have a resolution on january the first. it's a question of whether we have no resolution at that time but it seems that it's likely to a come within a short time. the longer we go into january with no resolution the more likely that we do go off the cliff into recession. gerri: the broader concern is if we confined in the ground. gre
, this is your fox new fox news b. defense secretary is saying u.s. intelligence services have very serious concerns about the routine use of chemical weapons in syria has the u.s. much official tells fox the syrian president is prepping a deadly nerve agent loading it into bombs for deployment. experts say it is 500 times more toxic than cyanide. the pentagon plan to prepare publications in africa are extremist in al qaeda. manage national core are prepping to launch offensive in northern mali. providing training and equipment and transportation, separation set to begin early next year. over in each of the presidential palace looking like an armed camp is at this time. egyptian military installing barbed wire barricades and stationing tanks after another night of deadly protest. the worst round of violence in two weeks. clashes between rival to mr. this killed the seven last night. those are your headlines, back to lori and melissa. lori: time to get a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. senate majority leader harry reid just took the floor. he tried to get a vote on the fiscal cliff deal at 1
though he has been an employee for two years, now covering his legal fees. longtime white-collar defense attorney, does not come cheap, he starts around $1300 per hour. he made about $9 million according to the criminal complaint. that was the bonus. lori: so he has money. >> maybe. 1300 per hour. a lot of money. and this is raising some eyebrows in the legal community. companies often do this. lori: makes sense, great strategy. >> he probably had an employment contract, but we don't know. we don't know if it's a deal created then based on an employment contract, or whether it is something they just did now, but it does at least two legal experts it exists, it provides an incentive when yourr boss, who they want you to cooperate on and no doubt they want steve cohen, that is their ultimate target. i have learned this from numerous people i've talked to, law-enforcement involved in this case, you read the complaint, this anonymous owner of the hedge fund which they talk about, we have confirmed it is steve cohen, he gave the inside information to. we don't know if you told him this is ins
state borders you would not be able it to enjoy. >> absolutely. until the defensive marriage act is repealed, we still have lots of fences up. >> we have high hopes. >> what do you make of the fact that the supreme court is now getting involved? they say they're going to take on this issue as part of the docket. >> well, we were hoping that proposition 8 would have been refused by the high court and then turned back to the circuit court, because then it would have been reinstated or i should say, you know, marriage would be possible in california. but they're going to hear it, and that's probably a good thing, too. but the defense of marriage act is under review, will be under review by the high court. what we heard yesterday is probably not until march. at least they have agreed to hear it. that's hopeful. >> all right. 35 years together and married. congratulations. we appreciate your time. >>> some critics say the environmental protection agency should go away. we talk to the head lisa jackson. that interview is up next. >> we should regulate smartly and shouldn't be on pressi
a disaster, the mandatory spending cuts and domestic spending and defense spending, the mandatory increases across the board taxes from everyone if we go over that fiscal cliff, you got to compromise. there's nothing wrong with compromise. to some liberals on the far left, conservatives on the far right, compromise is a dirty word. you should never compromise with the other side. they hate that. they rather go over the fiscal cliff but the overwhelming majority of americans totally disagree with those hard line positions on the extreme left and the extreme right. they want to compromise and they want a deal and they want the president and john boehner, the republican leadership and democratic leadership to come up with something that avoids going over the fiscal cliff. i think that's what that poll shows. >> let me change topics for a bit. news broke just before the program that republican senator jim demint is leaving. he decided to take over the heritage foundation. i have a question for you in that was this expected? he's a staunch conservative and opponent to craving into democrats and
in the budget negotiations. and the latest on the showdown in syria and defense secretary leon panetta's warning for president assad with former ambassador nick burns. male announcer ] jill and her mouth have lived a great life. but she has some dental issues she's not happy about. so i introduced jill to crest pro-health for life. selected for people over 50. pro-health for life is a toothpaste that defends against tender, inflamed gums, sensitivity and weak enamel. conditions people over 50 experience. crest pro-health for life. so jill can keep living the good life. crest. life opens up when you do. [ tylenol bottle ] me too! and nasal congestion. [ tissue box ] he said nasal congestion. yeah...i heard him. [ female announcer ] tylenol® cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion. nyquil® cold and flu doesn't. [ "the odd couple" theme playing ] humans. even when we cross our "t"s and dot our "i"s, we still run into problems -- mainly other humans. at liberty mutual insurance, we understand. that's why our auto policies come with accident forgiveness if you qualify, where your rat
less than a month since the election, crossroads is coming to the defense of shelley mo rorks moore capito, thinking of challenging rockefeller in 2014. some have been attacking her as not conservative enough for the seat. crossroads president steven law told politico, quote, it is distasteful to see washington politicos clubbing republican candidates right out of the gate, especially ones with the guts to challenge an entrenched incumbent and who enjoy the broad base of support that shelley moore capito seems to have. or jim demint said he'd rather have 30 conservative republicans in the senate than 60 who don't believe in anything. karl rove would probably rather have 60 republicans in the senate no matter what they believe. that is going to be the fight. that is the battle line in the republican party right now. the guys who want purity, more tea party, versus the guys who want a supermajority. no more obama cares. heritage versus crossroads. karl rove versus jim demint. pass me the popcorn. joining me, dave weigel of "slate" and msnbc contributor. dave, it is good to see you her
spending of our government, things like defense, homeland security, education, it's so-called entitlements. you've got to kurt althe increase in spending on things like medicare that's putting us in the hole. >> what you don't want to do you don't want the make it punitive for people to make charitable donations. to me that's another lose argument for the republican. you got to be very careful where you encourage the cutting of entitlements. >> yeah. one thing i don't think i should ask a democrat to do is turn medicare into a voucher program. you know, the paul ryan budget had a premium support system, which i think makes sense, but a lot of people on the left are not going to go there, but i think we could adjust the age of eligibility for medicare from 65 to 67 over the next 30 years. cue ask all three of us to pay the full cost of part b premiums. >> prescription drugs. >> the prescription drug benefit. make us pay the full costs. we can afford it. but here's what i would say, how this movie ends -- and that's your question. >> yes. >> we will wind up losing on probably the rate issue
cliff. you'll raise some taxes, yes, that's true, you'll cut defense and some human services. this is the only way we'll have a significant bite out of this deficit. i think the market is going to like this. they say no right now, but when they see that this government is taking on the deficit in a serious way i think they will like it >> you don't think going over the cliff is armageddon? >> this is just nonsense, absolutely not. this is a bipartisan deal that was made. now both parties are trying to welch on their commitments. i think that's a mistake. >> steve, ben bernanke said today if we do go over the fiscal cliff, even if it's for a short period of time, it's going to be very costly and they do not have the tools to basically dig us out of it. do you believe if we go over the fiscal cliff it won't be as easy as the governor is suggesting? >> we're in trouble anyway this quarter and the next quarter and putting on taxes of any kind would be the wrong thing to do. sometimes the governor is a former physician, current physician, and you learn first go don't harm the pati
as you're reacting, you're playing defensive ball, you're going to lose the game here. the reality is that it will save us a lot of money if we get universal health care. in fact, if we got universal health care with no out-of-pocket expenses and ran it the way the french do, it's the functional equivalent of almost eliminating the income tax. people don't realize, that's one of the two big things ruining our economy. and why is health care an entitlement that is bankrupting the country? why isn't a national security apparatus that costs more money than all the income taxes we pay for all of the things that it does to fight a war we're not going to face, why isn't that an entitlement issue we should be raising? >> you know, i think about the american worker. having someone work a couple of years longer. this in a way, as you've said, it's a death sentence for some people who don't have office jobs. what do you think? >> this is cruel. it contradicts the religious teachings that so many republicans are constantly throwing at us. they should go back and consult the old testament abou
over the cliff is okay, because liberals say, you know what, we get those defense cuts we wouldn't get otherwise, and they believe the public would not like to see that, and i think at some point, wolf, you have to say, i don't know when it is, but at some point the president and his people as dana bash was just talking about, need to get to the negotiating table. let's be fair to the house speaker. he put a plan on the table that included revenues, substantial revenues, not raising the rates, i mean, that's the big problem. but he did do that -- lots of outside conservative groups are now railing against him. but he did put something on the table that was a serious plan, and the white house is not dealing with him on it, so the president has leverage, but at a certain point they all have to behave like grown-ups. >> newt gingrich knows something about going eyeball to eyeball with a democratic president. that happened in the '90s with billi bill clinton. listen to what he says about the fiscal cliff? >> i think no deal is better than a bad deal. i think going off this cliff is less da
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